tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1639993681285476875.post8745473321358380146..comments2024-03-12T17:52:01.234-07:00Comments on Linux Beach: Who Used Sarin in Syria?Linux Beachhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10359697432337570913noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1639993681285476875.post-30553408733104879882013-09-08T16:32:03.109-07:002013-09-08T16:32:03.109-07:00I suppose you just got too busy then? The spot'...I suppose you just got too busy then? The spot's still open if not. http://acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com/wiki/User_talk:ClayclaiCaustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1639993681285476875.post-76508367576839587532013-09-07T16:56:22.138-07:002013-09-07T16:56:22.138-07:00Now for fully corrected:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news...Now for fully corrected:<br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22424188""I was a little bit stupefied by the first indications we got... they were about the use of nerve gas by the opposition," she said." <br />Not proven she said. Commission scrambled to "counter" her saying it's not proven. Rebels often infer sarin from atropine but no, not proof. Whatever it was, the people who fled to where the commission could go, said rebels put it on them. Rebels countered that of course. Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1639993681285476875.post-74788277178855462272013-09-07T08:30:46.940-07:002013-09-07T08:30:46.940-07:00@Caustic Logic. I stand partially corrected on Car...@Caustic Logic. I stand partially corrected on Carla del Ponte (I'd misremembered the first part of her statement): but what she actually said was: "Our investigators have been in neighboring countries interviewing victims, doctors and field hospitals and, according to their report of last week ...there are strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof of the use of sarin gas, from the way the victims were treated." So: no "Carla Del Ponte hearing from credible locals that rebels had been unleashing sarin." Rather, Carla del Ponte inferring from second-hand statements gathered in neighbouring countries that sarin may been used.A much longer evidence chain than you imply - and also a rather odd one. Why are Syrian victims being treated in neighbouring countries? Can you really infer what agent was used from their mode of treatment?)A lot of gaps here.The Magpie's Nesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03540906098106833025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1639993681285476875.post-3124797680008792912013-09-07T01:38:00.225-07:002013-09-07T01:38:00.225-07:00Clay, wow, that's quite a leap. I must be blin...Clay, wow, that's quite a leap. I must be blind, eh? Don't worry, I'm not bitter. "Zero motive" would be better said "net motive: far less than zero." Thinking that gassing numerous towns, next to the just-arrived U.N. CW team, might finally secure the areas is one strange +, a possible motive. The risk of red-line crossing and missile strikes or NATO air war like what crushed Libya, etc. is a bigger and clearer -. Or a + for the other side. To me that seems basic, but other people might have a hard time seeing it clearly. <br /><br />I have more response, but it might be too caustic when I'm hoping you'll come back to ACLOS, now that it's up and you're not blocked (again, sorry for that) and say what you were going to. I'm curious what had motivated you (if that was you? Petri thinks so). We aren't swamped with contrary voices, so you could have pretty much all the space you want. I don't see a reason there can't be a Clay's rebuttal page (with counter-rebuttals, of course), for this or any other issues. The Houla massacre myth sold last year is one that needs some defending now. (Same goes for readers to a lesser degree).<br /><br />- AdamCaustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1639993681285476875.post-59687647535804791382013-09-06T15:59:29.362-07:002013-09-06T15:59:29.362-07:00It is well documented that the Assad regime had be...It is well documented that the Assad regime had been trying to take East Ghouta for months using everything but chemical weapons so for you to say he had zero motive means that you are blind to the world around you.Linux Beachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10359697432337570913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1639993681285476875.post-90599228949707911202013-09-06T15:48:34.427-07:002013-09-06T15:48:34.427-07:00Thanks for the compliment and fair points. Carla d...Thanks for the compliment and fair points. Carla did say that, look it up. As for chlorine vs. sarin, yes, a puzzle. I'm guessing a chlorine base with, as Russia's scientists said, small amounts of un-stabilized unprofessional sarin, degrading fast and recently made. But still has ?? over it. None of it's 100% proof by any means, whereas Syria is believed to have large stocks, and less than zero motive to do this there and then. The site was down, but back now. http://acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Talk:Alleged_Chemical_Attack,_August_21,_2013Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1639993681285476875.post-6835623570973106632013-09-06T10:17:11.583-07:002013-09-06T10:17:11.583-07:00The agent used is certainly relevant, and the UN/O...The agent used is certainly relevant, and the UN/OPCW team should be able to clear that up (and their analysis may have some further info re provenance). But I'm not sure its decisive: the regime and its allies have already constructed a narrative that attempts to pin possession of sarin on the oppostion (aided by the usual conspiracy suspects). In my view the decisive question is mode of delivery and capabilities. The OPCW is unlikely to pronounce on that - so its still going to be an open question. But see Eliot Higgins work on Brown Moses.The Magpie's Nesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03540906098106833025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1639993681285476875.post-12265955052407377782013-09-06T10:06:19.139-07:002013-09-06T10:06:19.139-07:00A Closer Look on Syria generally has a different t...A Closer Look on Syria generally has a different take on the Syria Conflict to mine, but they usually do their homework, so I've been meaning to see what work they are doing on this. But seem to be down at the moment. I'll certainly look at the Brown Moses item, which I hadn't seen. <br />But I wonder if CLoS is maintaining their standards on this one. I don't know of any Carla del Ponte statement that says what is claimed here (Clay is the expert on this so he may respond). As far as I know all of the claimed reports of rebels possessing/developing Sarin have been debunked (most very hollow) except for the Turkish report, which I need to explore.<br />And of course there's the fact that the initial reports of rebels using chemicals (e.g in Khan al-Assal) claimed they were chlorine- based, then suddenly switched to Sarin when it suited. Overll, evidence against regime look pretty tight to me.The Magpie's Nesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03540906098106833025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1639993681285476875.post-63290749336283535522013-09-06T03:55:47.270-07:002013-09-06T03:55:47.270-07:00Greeting, Clay. You or someone seeming to claim to...Greeting, Clay. You or someone seeming to claim to be you signed up at A Closer Look on Syria. I was honored, after first blocking the account but then learning my mistake. Then the wiki went down, so I decided on a comment here. Please do complete your thought(s) there ... whenever it's up and running again. <br /> <br />"al Qaeda or groups affiliated with it have never used nerve gas anywhere." I would challenge how you know that? It's not their general thing AFAIK, but in Syria ... Have you seen Brown Moses' article on the plastic grenades that kept turning up at alleged CW attacks in Aleppo and Idlib? Seen only one other place, on the chest of an al-Nusra fighter around that area. Later denied but still maybe true: al-Nusra members in Turkey and in Syria busted with sarin, twice. Carla Del Ponte hearing from credible locals that rebels had been unleashing sarin. Numerous chemical labs busted all over, including in Jobar just upwind from all this on Aug. 24. <br /><br />And of course considering motive for each side to have just this happen right then and there, it's all but a slam dunk, from my perspective, who to suspect. Countering it, as you cite, all this chatter, rebel descriptions of how it happened, the defector, alleged phone calls ... hey, I think you missed one of those:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/04/us-syria-crisis-germany-idUSBRE9830TV20130904>German spy agency sees Assad behind gas attack, cites phone call</ref><br /><br />Another point in a growing body of clues that <i>this time</i> a U.S. president insists on warfare over chemical weapons in a Baath party regime in the Iraq and al-Sham area, this time it must be true, and intervening would not be a horrendous mistake. Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1639993681285476875.post-25783313725905819822013-09-04T23:44:00.470-07:002013-09-04T23:44:00.470-07:00There are labs established world wide certified to...There are labs established world wide certified to make the determination if and what agent was used. This has not happened yet and anything prior to those certified results is speculation! Determination of what agent used with positive scientific analysis in this False Flag world is priority. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16239124036896011760noreply@blogger.com